Sebastian

[hils]

Sorry that this only really applies to those who have played DA2 but I'm wondering what you all think of this guy



Did any of you romance him? Do you tend to side with him or Anders? Do you like him as a character?

Comments

[maramcreates]

Sebastian rubs me the wrong way, actually (Anders does a bit too, but not as much), and I tend to side with Anders (mostly because I tend to side with Mages anyway).
Honestly, as I am fairly predictable in this way, I got the DLC for the Leliana cameo.
I recruit Vivienne in DAI for the same reason (fun option to shave something in your pubic hair and have Sera comment on it - awesome scene, if you haven't tried it). While I love how well Vivienne's character has been written, and how perfect her banter/lines are, I find that she and my Inquisitor just don't agree much at all...and would never really continue to associate with one another.

[hils]

I am absolutely the same re Vivienne. I respect her a lot. She's clearly worked hard to get into the her position and fights hard to maintain it. I do not agree with her on her views on the Circles though

[maramcreates]

I think these two are probably my favorite Vivienne lines/scenes:
a) "I don't know what to make of Solas. So much knowledge and so little personal history...I find that...peculiar, don't you?"
b) "Vivienne: You are no longer a danger of being bound by enemies of the Inquisition, demon?
Cole: Yes. I am no danger now.
Vivienne: No more than you were before.
Cole: You worried for me.
Vivienne: I was concerned about you, demon.
Vivienne: You have grown adept at killing. If you cannot be gone, I would prefer you remain pointed at the enemy.
Cole: No. You were worried. The part of you that forgets I'm me cared. You want it to go away.
Cole: You think caring makes you weak. Don't worry. I won't tell anyone."

[hils]

Personally I love all of Vivienne's dialogue with Bull. Especially when he tries to call her Viv and she shuts him down immediately. He spends the rest of the game calling her ma'am :D

romance him to to live chastely? Um, no, I'm sailing into the sunset with Isabella, thanks.

[jenna_thorn]

I supported the Chantry enough to keep Sebastian's approval high enough to keep him from leaving during the game but that was really because of the Revered Mother. Honestly, I dislike his character enough that I seldom played with him in party (and didn't need to, because ♥ Varric ♥). I think he's high handed and arrogant, and I'm playing as a refugee, even if not as a mage.

Re: romance him to to live chastely? Um, no, I'm sailing into the sunset with Isabella, thanks.

[maramcreates]

Say it sister!

[norwood]

I am 100000000000% a Sebastian supporter. Rivalmanced him my first playthrough and he added SO much depth to endgame scenes—he really should have been a full-fledged companion and NOT a dlc, but Bioware had time constraints, iirc.

Unfortunately to that end, a lot of people don't download him, or refuse to because he's only female-romancable and even then you don't get the romance achievement (because mechanics didn't allow for it, him being a dlc and all), or because simply you can't actually bang him onscreen like the other companions. (Which is understandable, but also in wrong contexts kind of.... ehhhhh)

He gets a really bad rep for... reasons I understand but can't really see myself in game. He's privileged and stubborn and hot tempered and nobody is required to like him, but I feel like a lot of people don't even give him a chance. He's kind to ALL the companions (though imo most frustrated and shortest, if you can call it that, with Anders), he doesn't belittle Merrill's beliefs or agency and has a perfectly reasonable and quite open-minded theological conversation with her; he respects Fenris and even offers him a place in Starkhaven (once he retakes it) as Captain of the Guard to train ALL the guards up there—including the elves! He doesn't call out Isabela's choices save for worry that she's not facing something within herself (seeing as how that's what HE did when he lived the exact lifestyle she is), but never insults her about it. Honestly, to my ears while playing the game, even by Act III, he and Varric are at least getting along better (though Varric apparently can never quite get him, accoding to DAI, despite having much in common with him? ThOugh again, to me, that seems pretty out of character for Varric. And don't even get me STARTED on Sebastian's role in DAI if you choose to not martyr Anders. Not saying anyone SHOULD, but Sebastian's reaction is WAAAAAY out of his character. For serious.)

The most antagonistic relationships he has is with Aveline, who never quite trusts him because she sees him as waffling around a responsibility he should have undertaken long ago, and Anders, because Anders doesn't ever seem to try and see things from other perspectives when it comes to things he's passionate about (which is something Sebastian does try to do, even if he doesn't always succeed). (Disclaimer: I do like Anders in a lot of ways, but am infuriated with him in others. I'm not a staunch supporter no matter what, nor a staunch opposer, so this isn't coming from a position of ANY kind of hate.)

As far as "siding with him or Anders", I don't think it comes down to that, really. He wants you to kill Andrs, yes, the person who just detroyed his second family, the second family to be brutally killed/murdered (though his blood relatives were technically assassinated, being people of high import, but that's neither here nor there), with seemingly little to no thought of the innocents inside. BUT. Here's the thing. If you DO decide to "side" with him and kill Anders, Sebastian will FIGHT WITH YOU if you side with the mages. He will not abandon you, you don't have to have freindship or rivalry high enough for him to, he just will. Because he can see both sides of the argument, however well in either case. He's still tries.

In the end, people are welcome to like or dislike whomever they want, of course! But I admit my hackles get a little raised whenever someone dismisses him or dislikes him without even getting to know his character. Case and point—I'm not a big Isabela fan, outright disliked her my first playthrough or two (tbf, it was two with the same Hawke). I never took her anywhere (also because I was a dual rogue) until my second and third Hawkes, and then started to understand her better as a character. Still not my favorite, but I don't actively dislike her as much at all anymore. I just wish more people gave Sebastian the same thought and chance.

Sorry! Didn't mean to rant, but here I am anyway

[hils]

Not a rant! This is really interesting!

I'd never really thought about people's reactions to him in terms of him being a DLC character but I think you might be onto something there.

I'll admit I'd completed the game several times before I downloaded Sebastian. Partially because I didn't have the funds spare and partially because I was enjoying the game well enough without him. I wonder if my views on him would be different if he'd been a companion from the launch of the game.

Thanks for the comment! It was a great read!

[norwood]

From what I've heard (since I got him partially through my first playthrough and never finished the game without him), there's kind of a long weird silence after the Boom that people were somewhat confused about until they got the dlc and Sebastian ended up filling that space? (Which is yet more evidence to me he should have been/was intended originally to be a full companion rather than dlc, tbh.)

It sucks that EA/Bioware forced people to pay money to get a companion, and it kind of played to the detriment of people not wanting to download him. Especially because he wasn't romancable by both Hawkes—that's one of the two most common complaints I hear about him.

But! I will go on and on about Sebastian all day if people want to talk about him /laughs I do have a more secular headcanon concerning his attatchment to the Chantry, but that's my personal bias and I've also seen other Sebastian fans/fanfiction authors work the more religious middle road quite well with him.

[maramcreates]

Your post is probably the most impassioned support for Sebastian that I've read, and you bring up some interesting points that I'll have to think about. Thanks for sharing your perspective, and I hope you stick around the community for other discussions as well :).

[norwood]

I've got to say—thank you for not dismissing it outright or jumping down my throat about it! I have run into so many people in fandom online that just… refuse to even consider the possibility that Sebastian isn't as bad as they once thought or as he's been painted, etc. I didn't exactly mean to try and convert anyone (not saying you are, not saying I wouldn't be pleased if someone eventually came around!), and I hope I didn't come across as demeaning or preachy in my defense of him!

I mean it when I say nobody is required to like him—the characters you like are the characters you like, and those you don't are those you don't. Everyone should do fandom as best fits them and makes them happy. But it seems like most people who dislike him either don't download him (which is understandable for the cost (but not because of his orientation or incomplete romance)) or don't spend much time with him in the party, and I at least wanted to try and make a quick sketch/defense of how he interacts overall with the other companions!

Again, Thank You for such a polite and nice answer!! I have delved long into thought and discussion about Sebastian, so while by no means an expert (or the only perspective on him!) I would be happy to expand anyone's contextual knowledge of him if they haven't played with him in-game :D

[maramcreates]

I totally understand where you're coming from. When I was initially reading your post, I kept thinking about the random Sera-hate that I've come across and just how *strange* it is to me that people feel so strongly against her. I mean, I LOVE Sera's character, and I get that she's different, but I feel that folks who out-right hate her must have played a different game than I did. Finding her annoying I can understand, but hate? [shrugs]

In any case, I'm sure that if someone was seriously trash-talking Leliana (and there are some strange creatures out there that do), then I would have probably gone Six Mouths ala Penny Arcade or some such.

And, yes, welcome to the community ^_^!

[norwood]

Yeah, I can see how people would be turned off by Sera--I like her, personally, even with her quirky speech and though my Inquisitors so far like her, even if they don't necessarily agree with her.

But yeah, some people don't look below the initially-presented surface of a character into what motivates them, or maybe they get a bad impression and never quite get past it, idk.

There are characters I don't know so well (unfortunately most in Origins, as I've only ever done one playthrough so far), and I kind of don't like some, but I also realize I don't actually /know/ them, and so try to keep an open mind that can be changed as I will eventually know them better.

And thanks!! I'm certainly enjoying the discussions so far! Maybe this will help me get to know how to use DW better once and for all /laughs

[settiai]

As someone else who adores Sebastian, I want to basically draw hearts around this entire comment. ♥

[norwood]

I have spent entirely too much of my time thinking about Sebastian and therefore often overflow with feelings about him |D

[fereldanwench]

Little late to this party, but I just needed to say that your post really resonated with me. I think Sebastian is a great character with a lot of emotional depth, and I really wish he had been a full companion rather than a DLC. I feel like his involvement really enriches the overall story and provides the "pro-Chantry" counter that's really needed to balance out DA2's narrative.

[norwood]

For one, nobody is ever late to the Sebastian party ;D

But seriously, thank you! Good to see more Sebastian fans coming out of the woodwork with this discussion! I totally agree he should have been a full companion, and that is the hill I will die on if I have to.

I sort of agree his is a good "pro-Chantry" counter in DA2, but more for the good works the Chantry can do rather than any of their doctrine or dogma. I saw once somebody said that Sebastian, Leliana, Elthina even, and Justinia all have rather different views and interpretations of Andrastrianism and wishes for the Chantry than most the other religious characters we see. That Sebastian is more pro-what-Andrastianism-should-be rather than pro-Chantry.

I personally headcanon a more secular-minded Sebastian (and that is pure interpretation from me hearing his dialogue and going "hmmmmm that sounds like someone also trying to convince himself as well as sound that way to others" and probably shows my personal bias against most organized religions), one who less "found religion" and changed his ways voluntarily, but more found a sense of peace he'd never had in his blood family before, found he had a place if he wanted to take it up. The Kirkwall Chantry became a second home to Sebastian because he needed someplace to feel he was wanted, because he wanted to be needed and found useful. He also was wholly accepted by Grand Cleric Elthina when he first arrived—when he didn't want to be there at all, and then she even helped him escape, giving him the choice of what to do and where to go with his life. I don't think he ever had that before with his blood family, and it resonated sharply in him. What kind of place is this that would accept him so openly, knowing all his faults and transgressions? That, I feel, is what drew him in. Not the religion.

Whoops and there I go again /chuckles Gosh, I could go on and on about this

[fereldanwench]

By all means, go on! I've only found a handful of other people who enjoy Sebastian, so it's nice to ramble. :)

I'm actually an atheist myself, and one that grew up in the Bible Belt--I definitely have some hang-ups about organized religion that influence certain opinions I have about the Chantry. And after reading a little bit about Sebastian but before meeting him for myself, I was anticipating not being a fan at all.

But I never met this proselytizing, uptight snob that seems to dominate the fandom characterization. I feel his connection with the Chantry and his faith definitely influence his interactions, but the only person he really gets into those conversations with is Fenris, who is receptive to the idea of talking about what a spiritual/religious influence means in his life. Not that Sebastian doesn't get a little presumptuous and lacking some self-awareness sometimes--I think his "I used to be like you" comment to Isabela is off-the-mark, for instance--But I do think he's a genuinely compassionate person and is generally respectful of boundaries when it comes to how he treats Hawke's crew.